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Old 09-26-2008, 02:15 PM   #21
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That is correct... and then yanking the calves from their mothers. Then there are the milking machines that do cause damage to the udders over time. That is what my comment was about on having stricter guidelines.
Now you have me confused. My grandad milked a cow for years, and never had a bull near the pasture, nor did we eat a lot of veal. Don't cows produce milk as long as they are not allowed to dry up? Never seen a dairy farm that produced veal as a sideline. Why would a business use a milking machine that would cause damage to their "cash cow"? Seems counter productive to me.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:31 PM   #22
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Now you have me confused. My grandad milked a cow for years, and never had a bull near the pasture, nor did we eat a lot of veal. Don't cows produce milk as long as they are not allowed to dry up? Never seen a dairy farm that produced veal as a sideline. Why would a business use a milking machine that would cause damage to their "cash cow"? Seems counter productive to me.
I'm not a farmer, not an expert either. Recent news about dairy cows has brought the practice to light. There was also a show or something I watched recently where undercover cameras were taken into to dairy plants and it had footage of what was happening at those places.

Dumb me always had mental pictures in my head of years past where you had a farmer sitting on a stool with a bucket underneath hand milking a cow. In the mass production/demand and profit of any food sources, it is really hard to take in (at least for me) the corners that are cut to make a profit.

Anywho... I really did not intend for this thread to be deviated from the actual topic. I just would like to see some better practices put in place in the handeling of all animals used for food. That is my take/opinion on it all based on the knowledge that I have.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:50 PM   #23
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O Kayyyyyyyyyy,
Um. No thatnks........
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:55 PM   #24
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Sorry,
1st post wasn't very clear. No thanks, I really don't want Ben and Jerry to do the switch.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:03 PM   #25
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Sorry,
1st post wasn't very clear. No thanks, I really don't want Ben and Jerry to do the switch.
Don't worry John. They won't be going that direction with their product! You can still enjoy your Chunky Monkey (or whatever your fave flavor is).
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:47 PM   #26
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Dave and DQ, the issue isn't not milking a lactating cow, it's that they repeatedly impregnate milk cows so they will continue to give milk. Not my POV, theirs.
Seems to me that cows can propagate pretty much on their own. However, by the same token, they impregnate pigs so that they produce more pigs, same with chickens, sheep and all the other animals that are produced so that we, at the top of the food chain, can have meat to eat.

So how does PITA expect women to lactate? We aren't supposed to breed cows but we can breed women? The whole idea of using human breast milk is offensive to me. And their reasoning is even more offensive.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:29 PM   #27
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I am a breastfeeding mum, and I am very pro breastfeeding for my son, but there are a few problems with the idea of donated breastmilk for icecream:

1. The health of the mothers would have to be screened

2. I have tasted my own milk, and it is quite sweet, but I'm not sure an icecream made from it would be any good

3. Just when do they think a mother will have TIME to express the milk????? As a mum there is enough to do without sitting there expressing milk for an icecream manufacturer to use.

Plus I don't really think that milking cows is cruel. My DH grew up on a dairy farm in New Zealand and I don't know what it is like in the US, but in NZ the cows have it pretty good and I doubt that they would be stressed out by the milking process.

My FIL was an unusual farmer because he actually used to keep the calves with their mothers, so they could still feed off them when not milking, but DH didn't know of other farmers doing this.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:32 PM   #28
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Maybe PETA doesn't really want Ben & Jerry's to use human breast milk at all. Maybe they want to publicize a point that is important to their members: that the dairy industry is not beneficial to cows. I don't read minds well, but I'm guessing its the latter.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:07 PM   #29
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One word: ewwwwwwww

Man is PETA outta touch with reality these days... I wonder sometimes if they are on the same planet as us....
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:05 PM   #30
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Man is PETA outta touch with reality these days... I wonder sometimes if they are on the same planet as us....
Put your mind to rest...they are NOT on the same planet as us. Many of PETA's followers are hypocrites who wear leather products (shoes, belts, suede coats, purses, laces on their mountain shoes, etc.), eat burgers from fast food joints with their little crumb snatchers in tow (who also wear $100 tennies made with leather from skins of cows and also wearing hiking boots with leather laces), wear 100% wool sweaters while eating tasty lamb chops, then go off to carry a sign protesting cruelty to the udders of a milk cow. Give me a break. These are people lacking in knowledge of the ways of the world, and represent a tiny portion of our population. Unfortunately, the people who determine what is newsworthy and what is not, make the decision to promote the ways of the wackos from the far left instead of the good things that occur every day in this country.

I Digress...
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:06 PM   #31
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And we do like our veal. On the dairy farms I've been on, the impregnation is au natural - average about 10 cows for one bull. Now who's doing all the work? (LOL) There are a lot of things in our food chain that are not pleasant, but we do like to eat, don't we? Many of the things that are done are by regulation are for our own food safety. The guidelines that a dairy farmer has to follow are much stricter than those not in the business can imagine. And the dairy farmer's life, and that of his family, is no bed of roses either. 24/7/365, like it or get out of the business.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:07 AM   #32
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Ben and Jerry's ice cream is a drop in the bucket. If B & J uses breast milk, what about the dozens of other ice cream companies that will still use cow's milk? What about ALL of the dairy products we consume e.g. cheese, milk, cream, butter, yogurt, etc. As I said B & J isn't going to solve the problem. What problem??

Okay, here's a math question: How many women pumping breast milk will it take to to satisfy the demands of the entire dairy industry? And if a woman is lactating, isn't she using her milk to feed her own child? The whole idea is absurd. This is one of the reasons so many people find PETA a joke.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:44 PM   #33
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Just one more reason for me not to eat ben and Jerry's, I never liked their product anyways ;)
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:50 PM   #34
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I think the PETA didn't actually intend Ben and Jerry's to use breast milk. Even crazies like them know it would be near impossible to mass produce that much human milk. I think they are simply trying to make a point. We scoff at women lined up at a breast pump being milked like cows and they want to compare the cows to humans saying it's just as bad to do it to them. Apparently they use such comparisons quite a bit. Awhile back they compared a murder on a bus in Canada where someone beheaded a person and started to eat him, saying a butcher does the same thing and shows no remorse about beheading the animal. They have also pictured caged chickens next to holocaust photos. I just read a whole article on it. I'd link the site but it's highly political so if you want the link PM me.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:41 PM   #35
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Don't worry John. They won't be going that direction with their product! You can still enjoy your Chunky Monkey (or whatever your fave flavor is).
I'm really not a chunky monkey kind of guy, but hook me up with some pineapple and coconut and I'm good to go!
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:13 AM   #36
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Never get in the way of a milk cow with full udders and her milking machine.
She'll knock you over.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:11 PM   #37
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When more threads have to be deleted than left you know it's time to close it. I should have pulled the thread in the beginning. Anything PETA is just too controversial. There are many forums on the Internet for these types of discussions.
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