Santoku...where did it come from???

[BBQ Fish]

A friend of mine, for whom i haven't seen in years, had just came over and started antagonizing me about the way i cook.
What he was getting at is the Santoku knife i was using, and asked if i remembered doing the same to him 15 years ago.
Then finally, i did remember because he was the first person i had ever seen use a santoku knife and wondered how in the heck he had come accustomed to using it?
Well, his family is from Japan, and he told me the true meaning behind why he, and his culture came up with the knife.
First he said that there are many areas of cooking as we all know. But in japan, there are usually "specific" areas cooks go, but the different areas of the kitchen determines what knife to use.
My friend grew up being a cook, but in many different areas and when he 14 y/o his family handed down one, of the many knife sets they inherited over the years to pass down as well. His set included a santoku, honsuki, and paring knife because this was all he was supposed to need in his style of cooking.
Anyway, he explained that because he more "multi-tasked" while cooking, the santoku was given to him because of it's meaning of "three parts" intended for cutting meat, fish, and vegetables, without having enough time to change knives often, because you were too busy. He really didn't give a description on the history or meaning of the others, (or the honsuki) and we all know what a paring knife is for, but i thought it would be interesting to tell ya'll what i just learned today.

Peace

 

[Lugaru]

Thanks! That's an interesting subject that I had never really looked up. Now Im about to do a search or two since Im thinking of finally giving in and buying myself one.

 

[mrsdove]

Yeah, my husband had researched and read the same thing when he was researching what type of knife to buy for us. I was skeptical also at first, but now I wouldn't never trade in my knife and can't believe I used the cheap store bought ones for so long!

I do find their reasoning interesting too and if you think about, very accurate.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[college_cook]

Does a Santoku have any advantage over a chef's knife? Because it sounds like it can be used for most anything, which is the way I use my chef's knife.

 

[htc]

Is santoku a brand or type of knife?

 

[Andy M.]

It's a style of knife, not a brand. Check the link for an example-it's just the first one I could find.

http://www.surlatable.com/common/products/product_details.cfm?PRRFNBR=8431&CGRFNBR=2

 

[BBQ Fish]

I thought it was pretty interesting myself, especially the culture side of it. I was also told by my friend, Erik, that there is no translation for this in english, however they don't use steels/stick sharpeners at all in his family for some reason dealing with fear, and beliefs!?

college_cook: I, as well as Erik, honestly do think it has an advantage. With less of a curve at the tip of the knife, you rock the blade less.
Then, if you are cutting an item larger than usual, the blade angle of a santoku's tip will grab the board, giving you a sort of leverage, as a chef's knife angle would have to be near perpendicular to do the same.
And yes, some use santoku's for everything.

There WILL be many that agree to disagree this subject of my interpretation of the last 17 years, and my friends in his culture. Weather a Chef's or Santoku is used, it is solely up to the individual person, and what feels right/comfortable in his or her hand, as well as in his or her style of cooking.

peace

 

[kitchenelf]

I hardly ever use my chef's knife anymore - it's Santaku for most everything. When there are many people prepping for something at the house they are very happy with a chef's knife as I'm not sharing my Santaku

 

[Daphne duLibre]

Put on your hip waders and a raincoat . . . *G*

Anyone even vaguely familiar with Japanese culture/history knows that the Japanese have a tradition of copying, reverse-engineering, "knocking off" sucessful designs from any and everywhere.

Crucial design elements from the Russian MIG aircraft show up in the Japanese Zero. Early Japanese computers look suspiciously like the stuff coming out of Intel . . .

The "Santoku" is an 8" French Chef.

Don't buy a blade with a "scalllop" or "serrated" etc. You want a straight edge on a balanced blade. Don't fall for any of the "hollow ground" crapola either.

8" French -- You can go 6" to 10" just fine, but the 8" French will do ya for most stuff in the kitchen.

That and a paring knife -- straight edge, sharp.

You need to bone or butcher, we can get into specialized blades for you.

But you don't need no stinkin' Santoku.

 

[BBQ Fish]

Anyone even vaguely familiar with Japanese culture/history knows that the Japanese have a tradition of copying, reverse-engineering, "knocking off" sucessful designs from any and everywhere.

The "Santoku" is an 8" French Chef.

This is where i agree to disagree.....First, who doesn't try to "Copy, reverse-engineer, or knock off" another product to "try" to better it or make it cost effective?
I know i have!

And history, or Japanese culture will tell you that way back when swords were the preferred method in war, the Japanese were on top with design, sharpness, and blade retention. In figuring how that was possible, is with the old forging process they used. By this process the Japanese were the true makers of "Damascuss" style blades, or what they call "Hada" and are still the best in my eyes today (however, very expensive)!

A Santoku is NOT a "French Chef" or commonly known as a "Chefs knife" at all! Even watching Julia Child in the 70's with her "French Chefs" knife and her referring to it that way as well, was not in any way, shape, or form, a Santoku. Americans dropped the "French" pre-fix to the French Chef knife, and just started calling it a Chef's knife as i recall (and started cooking) in the 80's.

Lastly, a Sclloped edge does work. When you cut larger items it almost seems like it suctions to your knife, right? In the same sense however, if you have kids and they get a hold of a suction cup, they stick it on the fridge, oven, or anything with a flat or enamel surface. When they figure out it doesn't stick on a grout line in the bathroom, it's a pretty fascinating thing to them, isn't it? No, not all scalloped knives are/work the same. But yes, well engineered ones do.

Peace

 

[ironchef]

This is where i agree to disagree.....First, who doesn't try to "Copy, reverse-engineer, or knock off" another product to "try" to better it or make it cost effective?
I know i have!

And history, or Japanese culture will tell you that way back when swords were the preferred method in war, the Japanese were on top with design, sharpness, and blade retention. In figuring how that was possible, is with the old forging process they used. By this process the Japanese were the true makers of "Damascuss" style blades, or what they call "Hada" and are still the best in my eyes today (however, very expensive)!

A Santoku is NOT a "French Chef" or commonly known as a "Chefs knife" at all! Even watching Julia Child in the 70's with her "French Chefs" knife and her referring to it that way as well, was not in any way, shape, or form, a Santoku. Americans dropped the "French" pre-fix to the French Chef knife, and just started calling it a Chef's knife as i recall (and started cooking) in the 80's.

Lastly, a Sclloped edge does work. When you cut larger items it almost seems like it suctions to your knife, right? In the same sense however, if you have kids and they get a hold of a suction cup, they stick it on the fridge, oven, or anything with a flat or enamel surface. When they figure out it doesn't stick on a grout line in the bathroom, it's a pretty fascinating thing to them, isn't it? No, not all scalloped knives are/work the same. But yes, well engineered ones do.

Peace

Game, set, match.

 

[Daphne duLibre]

On The Other Hand . . .

-- if it looks like a duck . . .

 

[Chief Longwind Of The North]

The Santoku is similar to a design called sheepsfoot. The name comes from the fact that the sheepsfoot blade resembles the hoof of sheep. It is a drop-point that falls severly from the knife spine to the cutting edge. This provides a very sturdy blade from tip to handle and makes for great chopping, dicing, and other cutting chores. My son loves his Santoku, while I prefer the 10" chef's knife. He likes to chop. I like to slice.

Generally, the Santoku has less belly than does a chef's knife. The belly gives the user an advantage in slicing as it encourages the proper motion. Both work well when drive straight down through veggies and semi-frozen meats. But try to press straight down through a piece of thawed meat and you will find that it requires much more force than if you use a slicing motion. Also, I like the pointy end fo my chef's knife for piercing the skin of, say, a watermellon, then driving the knive through to the other side. I then just rotate the knife downward along the cutting edge and have very easily sliced this big mellon. The tip of a good chef's knive should be in line with the handle's center, but should not drop below.

Both knives have andvantages over the other. Both are well thought out, and great designs. I like my chef's, my son likes his santoku. Are either of us more right than the other? I don't think so.

And the part where the Japanes reverse-engineer things, I think that's a truly wonderful gift, and a great strategy. But then again, have you ever gone to Toyata's competition, where their engineers are tasked with creating new and useful technology, well come to think of it, it doesn't even need to be useful. I have seen some of the amazing robotic, trasportation, and just generally playful designs that have been presented at these yearly competitions. Many of them were pure genius. From such play comes the building blocks of new and better technology, and true breakthroughs. Don't dis any other cultures. As I look at our world, I can't say that I'm very proud of what America or Europe has done to our planet.

I haven't all of the answers, but this I do know; it is a true compliment on American ingenuity that another culture looks to ours for ideas from which to build, and sometimes enhance products and goods. And just sometimes, they can do it better because of the buisness structure they live under. Too many times have great ideas been wrestled from the creator of that idea, and either squashed, or stolen by those with deep enough pockets to do so, in the good-old USA. Most of the great breakthroughs were made in America before the age of industrial and corporate giants.

When I worked for General Dynamics, I had to sign a paper giving them all rights to any inventions made or created by myself, whether they were made on company time, on company property, or made in my home garage, on my own time. I had no incentive to create jack under those conditions.

You guys did it again, touched on a subject gauranteed to put me up on the soapbox. I think I need to go watch some TV now. I hate it when people cut other people down, and usually because of plain ignorance and false pride. I'll say this yet again. There is no culture on this planet better than any other. We are all just trying to live, and hopefully make a better place for our children than we had. And if we aren't lifting each other, helping each other to grow, then we are cutting each other apart and aren't helping anything at all.

I have seen many sites that I enjoyed become immersed in flame wars, and ultimately discontinued. And it usually started because some person decided that they could insult or degrade someone else, or some other culture or race, or technique. This site has been different. It is a truly great site.

If anyone feels they have to cut others, or air their predjudices, please find some other place to do it. I admire this site for the people on it, for the comraderie, and the genuinely caring and freindly attitude. Let's keep that. And let's not forget that people from all over the globe share this public forum. I hope my conduct here will always be of benefit to others, whether I'm sharing something I know, or learning from others.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

 

[RPCookin]

I agree with the feeling that like most discussions about knives, it comes down to personal likes and dislikes... and what one is comfortable with. I have never used a santoku, because I simply happen to like what I have and see no reason to go out and spend big bucks on something that I don't need. I have a 10" and a 6" chef that do 90% of my prep work. A 5" boning knife and a couple of utility/paring knives round it out. The sticking has never seemed to be a problem for me... the cut pieces just climb up the blade and fall off... no big deal


I think that if Rachael Ray didn't use a santoku, most of us would never even have heard of one...

 

[kitchenelf]

RP - you are correct - it's whatever feels comfortable to the person. I ordered a Sankatu on a whim - I haven't put it down yet. Other than a boning knife it's the one I reach for 99% of the time. I used to use my chef's knife more but for me, I get greater control with the Sankatu. I'm going to give a stab at why I think this - I am short - the Sankatu's blade doesn't rock quite as high therefore I have better control over my knife. That's just a "stab" at why I like it better if that makes any sense.

 

[Andy M.]

My sister is looking for new knives and she has a problem with carpal tunnel syndrome and arthritis. Is a santoku lighter in weight/easier to handle for someone with less hand/arm strength?

 

[GB]

Andy my Santoku seems to be thinner than my chefs knife. Of course my Santoku is 7" and my chefs is 10" so that could have something to do with it as well.

As far as if it is easier to handle, it depends on how she uses her knives. I find my chefs knife easier for me, but that is because of the way I use it.

 

[jennyema]

My sister is looking for new knives and she has a problem with carpal tunnel syndrome and arthritis. Is a santoku lighter in weight/easier to handle for someone with less hand/arm strength?

Lordy, if what you want is light, think ceramic.

I just addeda Kyocera ceramic knife to my collection on a whim (was given $ gift certificate to Pottery Barn and used at WS). Now that thing is LIGHT! And SHARP, obviously.

I am babying it because of the notrious nature of ceramic knives breaking, but so far so good.

 

[GB]

I am jealous Jenny I have never even held one of those, but sure would like to use one. I can't wait to hear what you think of it once you have put it through its paces!

 

[BBQ Fish]

Lordy, if what you want is light, think ceramic.

I just addeda Kyocera ceramic knife to my collection on a whim (was given $ gift certificate to Pottery Barn and used at WS). Now that thing is LIGHT! And SHARP, obviously.

I am babying it because of the notrious nature of ceramic knives breaking, but so far so good.

Kyocera does make sweet knives, and a friend of my wife just swears by them, and even let me try them for a few weeks while on vacation before i got my glodal set.

The weight is just unreal, and yes, id say they are as scary sharp as is my global now!
But, it is ceramic, and while they say it's hard as diamonds, i've as well heard of the chipping and breaking as well. Plus about the sending back to the manufacturer to get sharpened i didn't like, and that is the only reason i own my global set instead of kyocera!