Boiling water bath for jam and jelly or not?

[GB]

KarenSue, how do you know nobody ever got sick? Food poisoning can take many forms and can come on days after the food is ingested. Someone could get a headache 2 days later and it could be because of what they ate.

The assistant cook label just has to do with how many posts you have on the site. All new members start as assistant cook and as they post more their title changes. Welcome to the site

 

[Selkie]

PS...Just so you know RE: My previous post on Jams and Jellies, under my name I am noted as being an assistant chef, but how that got there I have no idea, for I am a retired cosmotologist who has always loved to cook...not an assistant chef. Karen Sue

Karen Sue, It's a title that the message board automatically applies based on the number of posts you make. The greater number of posts (comments) the more authorative title you will acquire. It's just one of those "fun" things that happens without us doing anything. Enjoy!

 

[KarenSue]

RE:boiling-water-bath-for-jam-and-jelly-or-not

Thanks to those of you who filled me in on what my 'assistant cook' status means and to the reply 'How do I know that no one ever got sick or not from my jams and jellies, I am pretty sure that after making and sharing them since 1963 and considering the thousands of jars that I have shared with every relative, neighbor, friend, co-worker and acquaintance over the years, I would know by now if there was a problem or not. I think the real problem is the caution and sanitary conditions on the part of the person who is making it. Somewhere in the world people must have gotten sick at some point in time and it was found to be related to eating something that was improperly canned, which is probably when and why the cooking instructions in the Serto Package changed after all of those years, from turn the jar upside down for 5 minutes to boil in a water and/or pressure canner. What I personally think it has boiled down to is a people thing. For example, when microwaves first came out, many mothers heated their baby's bottle that way for years, but over the past few years that too has changed because many of the people heating the bottles did not take the necessary precautions and their babies were been badly scalded or burned in the process. Now, people are warned against using this method altogether to warm bottles and it is suggested to feed babies room temperature formula rather than even warm it at all to avoid this catastrophe. I think the real problem here is not the process, but rather the caution and sanitary conditions taken by those doing the canning! Thanks for the input...KarenSue

 

[GB]

I am pretty sure that after making and sharing them since 1963 and considering the thousands of jars that I have shared with every relative, neighbor, friend, co-worker and acquaintance over the years, I would know by now if there was a problem or not.

What makes you think that though? Do your friends and family tell you ever ache and pain and headache they ever get? If someone you know gets diarrhea do they tell you? These are all signs of food poisoning and it could be coming from your food without you even knowing it.

 

[KarenSue]

Dear GB, You are right about one thing, people don't tell each other everytime they get a headache or upset stomach, etc., but I do know when my husband, grown children, grandchildren and great grandchildren are under the weather and I have never known any of them to get sick or not feel well after eating anything that I have cooked, including my jams and jellies. As for friends, neighbors, co-workers and anyone else I have shared my wares with over the past 50 + years, I have never had any complaints RE: my jams and jellies or anything else for that matter other they ran out and need more...Thanks for your input. KarenSue

 

[Alix]

Its a bit like saying, "No one died when I didn't wash my hands/cutting board/knives before cooking!"

The instructions have changed to reflect our knowledge. The basic idea is that we do things the best way we know how at the time. I don't really recall anyone getting sick from my jams either (and I did the wax topper thing) but now that I know the potential is there and I know how easy it is to prevent any illness...well I'm a water bath girl.

Our knowledge base has changed so we need to change with it. Sticking with the old ways has been shown to have some risk, and the change is simple. Why not change to keep your loved ones safer?

 

[KarenSue]

Dear Alix, As I said in my first post, I have done the water bath method over the past few years, since the instructions have changed, but as I have stated in additional posts on the subject, I do believe that the change in the Serto package a few years ago, from turning the jelly jars upside down for 5 minutes to the water canning method was the end result of people whose canning was not done correctly or in unsanitary conditions, which did and will always cause people to get sick. If done right I believe that the upside down method is a safe alternative to the water canning method, but the end result does have a great deal to do with the person doing the canning. KarenSue

 

[Daizymae]

Dear Alix, As I said in my first post, I have done the water bath method over the past few years, since the instructions have changed, but as I have stated in additional posts on the subject, I do believe that the change in the Serto package a few years ago, from turning the jelly jars upside down for 5 minutes to the water canning method was the end result of people whose canning was not done correctly or in unsanitary conditions, which did and will always cause people to get sick. If done right I believe that the upside down method is a safe alternative to the water canning method, but the end result does have a great deal to do with the person doing the canning. KarenSue

I think that the industry is trying to get people to purchase boiling bath canning systems.

It is indeed correct that cleanliness is everything. That, and doing the jamming quickly so that the liquid fruit doesn't have time to cool down too much while exposed to air.

Neither KarenSue nor I are trying to get anyone here to stop the boiling-water bath. You are quite correct to urge everyone to do their own research. However, as with all research, each one comes to her own conclusions based on personal bias.

 

[KarenSue]

Boiling water bath for jam and jelly

Ay least Daizymae and I agree that done right the upside down version for canning jam and jelly works just fine. I did email Kraft earlier to ask why after years they changed their instructions from the upside down for 5 minute version to the water bath process. Haven't heard back from them yet, but I am anxious to hear their reasons. I' let you all know what they say...KarenSue

 

[kadesma]

I think I said this before, we each have a right to our opinion, But please lets just agree to please take every precaution when canning. I think all that was said has been said over and over. It's obvious ideas are not going to change. I'll be ignored here because someone will feel they have to add to the array of ideas. In the end no one will be happy with what has been said. It's time to give this a rest and goodnight. Don't hurt someones feelings to make a point. Just remember talk to you cyber family as you would like to be spoken to. I know deep down what it's like to have something you've said taken issue with. Be kind it pays.
kadesma

 

[Alix]

Not sure what happened to my post but I'll try again.

KarenSue, I read your posts. I can tell you why they changed their instructions. It has nothing to do with pushing folks to buy canners, or folks not following the directions meticulously. It has everything to do with modern science and research. There is a post of mine a few back that has a link to botulism in it. Thats why they don't suggest canning as we used to.

When they gave us those canning instructions it was because that was the best information they had at the time. They now have more information, thus the instructions have changed. Simple really.

 

[KarenSue]

boiling-water-bath-for-jam-and-jelly-or-not

After sharing my views RE: the water canning process for jams and jellies versus the invert method, I wrote to Kraft, the maker of the product called Certo, that I use when making jams and jellies, to get their professional point of view and below is their reply. Although currently they note recommending the water bath method, the invert method that they recommended years past must also still be an acceptable alternative, for they have included those instructions as well. Based on their response, I still believe, if done correctly, as their instructions so state and in sanitary conditions, this is a safe alternative for canning jams and jellies. If it wasn't and there was a chance that someome could become gravely ill or die as the result of using the invert method, I am sure that Kraft would have made it a point to clearly say so, rather than provide me the 'correct' instructions on how to properly use the invert method succesfully. One of the main things to remember with using this method is that you must fill the sterilized jars with the boiling hot jam or jelly 'immediately.' You don't stop to answer the phone, the door or do anything else until the jars are filled and sealed and inverted. Karen Sue



Subject:Re: Your Comment/Question Case ID: 20831216Date:8/9/2010 11:58:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight TimeFrom:Onlineteam2@casupport.comReply To:To:wkjbiida@aol.com



Thank You for Contacting Us!

Hi Karen,


Thank you for visiting Kraft Foods - great recipes and meal ideas from Kraft Foods and letting me know of your request.

The Kraft Kitchens Recommends the Water Bath Method as it's what we've developed and tested.

INVERSION METHOD
Wash jars (Keep jars hot in 200F oven or leave in hot water); Sterilize in boiling water 10 minutes

Bring pot of water containing lids and bands to a boil and then turn off heat

Fill hot, sterilized jars to 1/8 inch of top with mixture

It's important to work quickly to fill jars

Wipe jar rims and threads, cover quickly with lids and screw bands tightly

Invert jars for 5 minutes, then turn upright

After 1 hour, check seals; store in cool dry place

If you haven’t done so already, please add our site to your favorites and visit us again soon!

Kim McMiller
Associate Director, Consumer Relations

~~TLXEA_20831216~~Y

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Daizymae]

Thanks for this information. I have previously noted that I spoke to a pectin manufacturer on the phone. The insert in her product says to process in a boiling water bath but she told me that with properly acidulated jams & jellies you don't have to. I think she was trying to cover all bases.

 

[KarenSue]

RE: Water Canning or not/Jams and jellies

Dear DaizyMae, You're Welcome. I have used the inverted method when canning jams and jellies for years with no problem, just as you and your mom have, but in view of all of the negative responses I got, I took the time to contact Kraft and read up on all of the facts and I too learned a few things that I didn't know before. Apparently the inverted method of canning jams and jellies always has been and still is very popular in the European countries. Also until receiving the answer to my inquiry from Kraft I never knew that you can keep your sterilized jars hot in a 200 degree oven. As they say we learn something new everyday. Have a Great Week! KarenSue

 

[GB]

If it wasn't and there was a chance that someome could become gravely ill or die as the result of using the invert method, I am sure that Kraft would have made it a point to clearly say so, rather than provide the correct instructions...

So your idea of researching the safety of this technique is to ask the corporation that stands to profit from you using their product as often as possible if it is ok. That is like asking Apple if it s safe to use an iPod in a car. Of course they will say yes. They certainly will not highlight that people die all the time because they are distracted by looking for a song and take their eyes off the road and get into an accident.

 

[KarenSue]

Dear GB, Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and apparently we disagree and no doubt I am sure I did far more research than you did. Having made jams and jellies for over 50 years and having used both the water canning method as well as the inverted method, with no fatalities thus far either way, I am confident that no matter which method I use, all those I choose to share it with will be safe from harm! As I stated in a previous post, I believe that this is a safe method if done right and in sanitary conditions, so to each is own. You make your's your way and I will do the same. Thanks for your input...KarenSue

 

[KarenSue]

Dear GB,...P.S. Yes my idea in part when researching the safety of the inverted method for making jams and jellies was to ask the corporation that stands to profit from me using their product, but they would have nothing to loose as the result of their reply to me because Certo is used in making jam and jelly regardless of whether you use the water bath method or the inverted process and I would use it either way. Based on your post to me, that suggests Kraft would tell me what I want to hear to insure that I would use their product, I am not quite sure that you even know what Certo is or what it is used for and I wonder if you have ever even made any jam or jelly??? KarenSue

 

[GB]

KarenSue, I would appreciate you sticking to the facts and not turning this into something personal, thank you. You do not know the first thing about me or what I know about the subject.

I will continue to make mine in a way that science had shown to be safe and will not rely on the "no one has ever gotten sick from my way" school of thought since that is impossible to prove and is as dangerous as saying my grandmother smoked for 40 years and never got cancer so it must be OK to do.

 

[KarenSue]

Dear GB, In my Post to which you responded, I shared the information that I received from Kraft and in my reply to you I did not take your opinion personal, but just simply and honestly responded to your 'personal' accusations. As I said before, we are all entitled to our opinion. I have shared mine, you have shared yours and that said, I see no point in continuing this debate, for that is really not what this web site is suppose to be about. Have a great week! KarenSue

 

[patfromlogan]

KarenSue, I would appreciate you sticking to the facts and not turning this into something personal, thank you. You do not know the first thing about me or what I know about the subject.

I was wondering if Alix or GB know something, something that they aren't revealing? Some secret knowledge of the dangers of the inversion jam method? Is there any evidence that this is actually dangerous? If there is evidence, then please share it.

I'm in Logan Utah and when canning tomatoes and tomato soup and tomato based salsa I really didn't want to bother pressure cooking; boiling water bath is so much easier (kinda like inversion is easier than boiling water bath). So I called up the Utah State University Extension office and asked how much low acid food can I put in and still be safe. They told me 1/3 would be fine (with 2/3rds tomatoes) but 1/4 would make it certain. This is NOT the advice you would get from canning companies. They tend to error on the side of their lawyers, rather than science.


And thanks KarenSue for the info on keeping the jars hot in the oven, I hadn't thought about that.