Importance of eating organic

[Marmora]

At first I was one of those people who was like "organic food? Pfft waste of money!" thinking that the pesticide issue isn't such a big deal, but that was before I was health conscious. Now I try my best to buy mostly organic, especially after when I discovered a shocking truth about pesticides when I browsed this site: What’s On My Food? :: Pesticides On Food

Browse the site yourself. Take note of these three pesticides that are found in pretty much EVERY food: diazinon, chloropyrifos, and dimethoate. Wikipedia them if you want. The point is, they're highly toxic compounds that destroys your nervous system and they're not just found in one food; they're found in EVERY SINGLE food.

Studies have shown that these compounds increase your risk of getting Parkinson's disease: Well-Water Consumption and Parkinson

What bothers me isn't the fact that these chemicals are present, but rather, it's how ignorant the food industries are. Yes they are found is very small quantities, but what about the additive effects? Someone likes me who eats 20 servings of whole foods a day, wouldn't I be getting like 20 times the amount of diazinon AND chloropyrifos AND dimethoate AND other highly toxic pesticides into my body PER DAY? Bunch of idiots.


Who knows, maybe the rising rate of Parkinson's disease is due to these pesticides? Nobody knows, but God forbid that it is.

Sorry if you think my post is a propaganda, but it really isn't. For someone who's been eating mostly vegetables for the entirety of my life, I believe that I should be rightfully concerned about this. And everybody else should be too.

 

[Josie1945]

Welcome to DC.

Josie

 

[Fabiabi]

Thanks for putting this info up. Good to know what else is in your food and whether or not you're better off not eating it at all sometimes. I have my vegetable garden all planned out for next year

 

[dcSaute]

for the last thousand years or so I've been telling the "better living through chemistry" crowd - the folks pointing out how organic is no more nutritious, etc.....

"organic" is not about what is on/in your food, it's about what is _not_on/in your food.

 

[CWS4322]

I don't claim to grow organic, but my chickens are out on the lawn right now--a lawn that is full of dandelions, etc. I also don't use anything to fertilize my vegetable garden other than compost. Now, some of the stuff that goes into the compost was purchased, so I can't claim I grow organic. And, I don't always buy organic seeds, but I do harvest my own seeds. I also don't eat processed food or "easy because it is a mix" foods. Will it make a difference in the long run? I have no idea, but I just feel better knowing what my hens eat and how long it has been since the eggs were laid, makes me feel better (I was grossed out to learn eggs sold in grocery stores can be between 3-12 months old!!!). My greens aren't grown in "heavily fertilized sand" and they don't have a lot of dirt on them--yeah, there was a worm on my Swiss Chard yesterday--but I just didn't eat that part. And, don't forget to be certified organic, the soil also has to have been chemical free for a certain number of years.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Egg processors typically print dates commonly called "Code Dates" on cartons for purposes of rotating stock or controlling inventory. "EXP," "Sell By," and "Best if Used Before" are examples of terminology used for code dating. Use of code dates on USDA graded eggs is optional; however, if they are used, certain rules must be followed.

If an expiration date is used, it must be printed in month/day format and preceded by the appropriate prefix. "EXP," "Sell By," and "Not to be sold after the date at the end of the carton" are examples of expiration dates. Expiration dates can be no more than 30 days from the day the eggs were packed into the carton.

Another type of code dating used indicates the recommended maximum length of time that the consumer can expect eggs to maintain their quality when stored under ideal conditions. Terminology such as "Use by", "Use before", "Best before" indicates a period that the eggs should be consumed before overall quality diminishes. Code dating using these terms may not exceed 45 days including the day the eggs were packed into the carton.

Eggs

 

[dcSaute]

cw -
the whole "organic" thing predates Washington, DC and the marketeering exploiters - so one has to be aware of "whose definition of organic are we talking about?"

the original "definition" of organic growing is exquisitely simple:
(1) feed the soil, not the crop
(2) don't kill the good bugs

with public awareness and the increase in the "organic marketplace" the dummymint of course has to "define" things so consumers were not mislead by labels.

there's long lists of things one can and one cannot employ in the "organic" production of plant and animal products. if you're an organic gardener and you read the list, you'll croak at some of the allowables and wander in a 40 day daze at the absence of others.

 

[dcSaute]

>>Code dating using these terms may not exceed 45 days including the day the eggs were packed into the carton.

yeah, but that doesn't mean the egg packager can't take back the outdated stock, wash, inspect and repackage with yet another 45 day period.

and, btw, with exception of about half dozen things, the Feds don't regulate the sale of outdated product - and just to make everyone happier - I've not yet discovered a state that requires stores to remove product "out of date" from the shelf or from sale.

and let's not mention, the 45 days is from packaging. it has no bearing on when the egg was laid by a chicken or how long it has been in storage before being packed.

so the egg packager can't put a date more than 45 dates out on the package - but if it's still in the chain there's no requirement to not sell it or remove it from the shelf.

 

[Uncle Bob]

yeah, but that doesn't mean the egg packager can't take back the outdated stock, wash, inspect and repackage with yet another 45 day period.

The commercial producer has no interest in doing this....It does not serve his self interest....They (producers) do not pick up out of date eggs from retailers...Period.

and, btw, with exception of about half dozen things, the Feds don't regulate the sale of outdated product - and just to make everyone happier - I've not yet discovered a state that requires stores to remove product "out of date" from the shelf or from sale.

What retailer do you know that leaves out of date eggs on their shelf?? What customers do you know who would buy out of date eggs???? The Federal/State Government doesn't have/need to get involved. It is in the best interest of the retailer, along with the consumer, to "police" themselves.

and let's not mention, the 45 days is from packaging. it has no bearing on when the egg was laid by a chicken or how long it has been in storage before being packed.

and where do you assume a large scale commercial egg producer stores these eggs....and how??. Maybe in a large warehouse facility....Piled up on a daily basis with a front end loader???? Producers of eggs have no interest in stock piling eggs...It cost money!!! The object is to get the eggs to market ASAP...Only then do they get a pay check. A large producer up North of me has about 1,000,000 layers producing...If he picks up 700,000 eggs per day (58,000+ dozen per day...1900+ 30Dz cases per day) Can you imagine the amount of refrigerated space it would take to store these eggs?? The cost??? ~ It makes no economical sense. None!

so the egg packager can't put a date more than 45 dates out on the package - but if it's still in the chain there's no requirement to not sell it or remove it from the shelf.

Again...No retailer gains any advantage by selling out of date eggs. ~ Again it would take a totally stupid consumer to buy them....It's called business liability and personal responsibility.

 

[dcSaute]

Uncle Bob -

not all producers or retailers are interested in their reputations - some are more interested in profit. if it's not illegal, they do it - and some folks don't worry all too much about the illegal bit either . . .

don't get me wrong - I'm all for more ethics, less government. (sigh), it's not going well.

about two years back there was a giant flap in the news about "reprocessing eggs" - it happens. our supermarket even had to put up a sign "None of our eggs are reprocessed"

btw, I did just trip over Florida's law - that state does not permit the sale of dairy (_only_) products past their date.

where / why do producers store their extra eggs? not all too sure, but USDA seems to think it's a problem as they've been "working" on regulations (now in force?) to require refrigeration from gathering to shelf store.
>>"Can you imagine the amount of refrigerated space..."
yeah, that is sorta' the issue - the 'refrigerated' bit - I am familiar with dry and frozen food distribution centers - the kind that count their floor space in acres . . .

not every country requires or practices egg refrigeration. the USDA is on that war path to control salmonella. countries with a smarter government require producers to vaccinate their hens and avoid salmonella issues altogether.

remember the recent egg recall - 500 million eggs - that's just the whole shell count. at one time I saw the number of days involved - don't recall - but even at the 45 day max that's 11 plus million eggs per day - and most from a single farm.... 700,000 isn't really such a big number.

 

[BigAL]

I farm and looked into organic farming, not for me and my family.

If you want FACTS go to a farm and find out for yourself and quit sucking up the liberal media scare tactics that are everywhere.

To make money you must sell your product, not try and "hurt" people cause it's cheaper. Everybody thinks that someone is out to get them. In general people are good and care about other people. Those who don't trust are hard to trust.

Ok, I'm off the box.........NEXT!

 

[dcSaute]

I think one has to accept there are zealots on every side of many issues.

unfortunately we have had a number of high profile food related issues in the recent past - the egg guy had been cited multiple times and was prohibited from expanding his operations - so he set up some straw companies. then there's the peanut situation from a while back - sampling showed the peanut butter products were contaminated, so they just kept sending in more samples until one passed. crooks are crooks - they give the good guys a black eye.

I doubt they were trying to "hurt" people - but apparently following the rules & regulations was too expensive so they ignored them - there were consequences.

the use of artificial fertilizers and the host of chemical pesticides has been around for a long time - and seems the population has not all died yet, so it's a very difficult argument to say "they're all bad." but some folks do take that stance and from time to time it gets a lot of press.

I went organic for my home garden decades ago - I had aphids on my peas and was thinking to dust down the whole crop with Sevin. came home, our youngest was out in the garden picking peas, shelling and eating them right in the garden. I was pretty happy about not having dusted the peas.

nor would I disagree that organic gardening on a large scale is dang tricky business. the japanese beetles bloomed around here and did a number of my green beans - but that was a 20 ft row, not twenty acres.....

 

[Snip 13]

It's all fine and dandy but not everyone can afford to buy only organic. I buy at small private farms and grow what I can myself but I still have to buy a few things in the supermarket and organic prices are sky high!
I have a friend that sells eggs from her own chickens, ducks and quail. So I know my eggs are good.
Botswana has very little fresh produce of their own and import most fruit and veg from South Africa.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Can you imagine the amount of refrigerated space..."
yeah, that is sorta' the issue - the 'refrigerated' bit - I am familiar with dry and frozen food distribution centers - the kind that count their floor space in acres . . .

Eggs are "harvested" and sent to the packing facility...Where they are cleaned, candled, graded, and packed in various size cartons with a Julian date affixed (date of packing) and an expiration date 45 days out. Whether they are stored in a 50,000 Square Foot Refrigerated warehouse or a 5 acre dry warehouse...the clock is ticking. My bottom line is/has been that "eggs sold in grocery stores can be between 3-12 months old" is pure hyperbole!

Cheers.....

 

[dcSaute]

the USDA does not agree with that description of the time line - in all cases I should add.

I have no doubt that some places the eggs go from hen to carton in a relatively short period of time.

apparently the USDA has observed eggs being "stored" for longer periods of time.
from my reading of the USDA proposed "refrigerate from hen to shelf" regulations and all the discussions around it, there is no rule, regulation or guideline about how long eggs can sit around before being packaged - which is when the date clock starts ticking.

"the industry" balked at the cost of providing refrigerated storage for all those eggs prior to packaging - why? could it be some places do 'hold' eggs for long(er) periods of time? it's not like the egg is going to go "bad" - people all over the world keep eggs on the counter top for weeks. the USDA's argument is those eggs - with one in xx thousand(s) eggs is potentially contaminated with salmonella - must be refrigerated to slow the growth of salmonella, and maybe a couple other things, who knows.

it's all on-line in the USDA documents if you want to go look it up. I did read through a lot of it, didn't save the links - no need to ask.

and I would agree that the 12 month old eggs is a stretch. 90 day old eggs... not so sure that is too far fetched.

 

[Alix]

I have said before (at the risk of causing a furor) that I suspect that the stock boys in the grocery store fill the shelves with whatever comes to hand. If the organic grapes are out...oops, some of the other ones get put there.

The "organic" section in most stores is filled with pretentious people who give you a glare if you have Velveeta in your cart, .

My "organic" stuff comes from a backyard patch of garden. Its not big, but we love it. I buy "organic" meat from family run farms. My chickens are HUGE, 10lbs and up is not uncommon. When I buy stuff at the regular grocery, I don't sweat it. I buy what we need and try to find it at a decent price.

We know a lot of farmers out there and most of them do everything in their power to keep their stuff as "organic" as possible.

 

[dcSaute]

>>the cost of organic

it's true "organic" produce usually carries a higher price tag - but at least in our area there are some very curious twists - for example

broccoli - the organic broccoli is sold "by the bunch" - typically 3-4 USD
the not organic broccoli is sold "by the pound"
I asked the old white haired guy (green grocer) to explain and his reply, true or not - but it does make sense - was the organic growers simply harvest & bunch and don't have scales to ensure every package is 2.654321 pounds/kilos/whatever.

you can see where this is going - grab a bunch of organic broccoli (3 or 4 "heads") put it on the scale, do the $/pound math,,,, yeah - organic broccoli is _cheaper_ per pound than the not organic broccoli.....

same with cauliflower and beans and sweet peppers and asparagus and . . . but mostly only "in local season" time.

organic stuff that no can grow local (to me) like oranges / grapefruit - from big name companies - carry a definite 'surcharge' - regardless of the time of year/season. our local fruit orchard just does not have the overhead and cost structure of SunKist brand . . . they do organic - it's local and cheaper than big brand not organic.

it can be very difficult to generalize the entire situation into one neat pigeonhole.

 

[sparrowgrass]

Producers can and do stockpile eggs-- the limit they can store eggs before processing is 30 days. Eggs are stored 'as is' --not washed, which means that they can be stored without refrigeration. Generally, they are kept cool.

In processing, they are washed and candled (inspected with a strong light to check for cracks, spoilage, double yolks, or no yolks, or other defects). They are then put into cartons or containers with the Julian date and an expiration date. The Julian date reflects packing date, not the date the eggs were laid.

Eggs are stockpiled mostly before the 2 big egg holidays--Easter, of course, and Christmas, when lots of baking is done.

 

[Andy M.]

...I asked the old white haired guy (green grocer) to explain and his reply, true or not - but it does make sense - was the organic growers simply harvest & bunch and don't have scales to ensure every package is 2.654321 pounds/kilos/whatever...

Where I shop, if something is sold by the pound and is not packaged, such as a head of broccoli or broccoli florets, they are weighed by the cashier at the register and priced accordingly. Othrwise, the store packages, weighs and prices the produce.

So the white-haired green grocer might have been spinning a yarn.

 

[greengirl]

Trying to go green

Does any one have any tips on how to keep veggies fresh and which veggies are easy to grow in an apartment? I live in Florida and veggies are expensive and spoil quickly due to the humidity help please!!!