thymeless
Sous Chef
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It's not just about botulism. There's plenty of other bacteria that will make you sick.
Do Potatoes Need To Be Refrigerated After Being Baked?
- Thread starter sydfan
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mozart
Senior Cook
Not if they aren't alive. Bacteria can't live in an oven at 350-400 degrees. The only pathogenic spore I know of that can survive that type of environment is the one that causes botulism and that needs an anaerobic condition to germinate.
The two hour rule that may apply to cooked, leftover foods is based on the premise that when the food is removed from the oven(stove, Grill), and you serve it, you are potentially contaminating it from the serving utensils, your skin as you reach over it, cross-contamination, and other factors in the environment like fans, air conditioners, open windows, or you or other people in the room stirring up dust or coughing.
None of those factors apply to an untouched potato in a hot oven. Pathogenic bacteria don't just appear on food, they have to be introduced.
thymeless
Sous Chef
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Remember those fork holes you poked in the potato? They penetrate the dirty skin first and transfer it all to the insides of the potato.
That kind of thinking will get you no potato at all!
By Mozart's reasoning, the potato will have become hot enough to kill any germs in or around it as it cooks.
Also by Mozart's reasoning, you would not be able to open the oven door to collect the potatoes you plan on eating without fear of allowing contaminants into the oven. Unless you leave it turned on to kill all the new nasties you just introduced.
Maybe the OP should start eating rice for their starch
mozart
Senior Cook
Likely you are correct. Now find me a reference to a pathogenic bacteria, other than botulism spores, that can survive the internal temperature that a potato reaches while baking; at least 212 degrees but likely higher.
mozart
Senior Cook
That kind of thinking will get you no potato at all!
By Mozart's reasoning, the potato will have become hot enough to kill any germs in or around it as it cooks.
Also by Mozart's reasoning, you would not be able to open the oven door to collect the potatoes you plan on eating without fear of allowing contaminants into the oven. Unless you leave it turned on to kill all the new nasties you just introduced.
Maybe the OP should start eating rice for their starch
My reasoning goes something like this. If you google baked potato, you will see that the perfect baked potato is done at 210 degrees. However, most of us go beyond that point, since we don't use a thermometer. There is no pathogenic bacteria that I am aware of that can survive 210 degrees anyway, except botulism spores.
When I open an oven door to take out the potatoes I'm eating, it is still 375 degree inside, so the new "nasties" are killed immediately even though the oven is turned off.
My reasoning is based on food science. As I've said many times here, most food poisoning occurs from contamination after cooking due to poor handling and storage practices. But is requires the introduction of new bacteria after cooking in a environment that the new bacteria can survive. That is the reason for the 2 hour rule. A 375 degree oven isn't such an environment.
Callisto in NC
Washing Up
Speaking only from personal experience, I've eaten potatoes that have been left out all night on more than one occassion with no ill effects.
blissful
Master Chef
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Yes, but, everyone that stopped posting on this thread has obviously died from eating left over left out potatoes.
Callisto in NC
Washing Up
Well, I'm still here. Then again, I'm eating the 7 day old spaghetti sauce from the other thread too. I must have some form of cast iron stomach.
blissful
Master Chef
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Would that be non-reactive enameled, like Le Crueset, or just well seasoned cast iron?
Callisto in NC
Washing Up
Just the well seasoned variety.Would that be non-reactive enameled, like Le Crueset, or just well seasoned cast iron?
PubChef_no.181212
Assistant Cook
I'd agree with Mozart.
How can a food you leave on the shelf for thirty days become poisionous after being baked at 400 degrees for an hour?
Now as for freshness, I don't know how fresh it will be. Kind of like leaving a slice of pizza at room temperature too long. It will dry up, and that CAN upset your stomach a little. But not make you sick.
How can a food you leave on the shelf for thirty days become poisionous after being baked at 400 degrees for an hour?
Now as for freshness, I don't know how fresh it will be. Kind of like leaving a slice of pizza at room temperature too long. It will dry up, and that CAN upset your stomach a little. But not make you sick.
GotGarlic
Chef Extraordinaire
Hi and welcome to Discuss Cooking
Funny to see this ancient thread resurrected. I think Michael's response is the best one: Just avoid the problem by not leaving leftovers in the oven, no matter what they are. Put them on the counter or in a dish and you'll be reminded to put everything away when cleaning up the kitchen.
Btw, dryness in food does not give people an upset stomach. Mild food poisoning does that.
And raw and cooked foods are chemically different. Raw potatoes obviously have pathogens in them, since they do eventually develop soft spots and decompose. Cooking potatoes releases moisture from within them, which, as they cool, creates a hospitable environment for any pathogens present to reproduce to harmful levels. Best to just avoid the problem
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mozart
Senior Cook
Hi and welcome to Discuss Cooking
I think Michael's response is the best one: Just avoid the problem by not leaving leftovers in the oven, no matter what they are. Put them on the counter or in a dish and you'll be reminded to put everything away when cleaning up the kitchen.
Btw, dryness in food does not give people an upset stomach. Mild food poisoning does that.
And raw and cooked foods are chemically different. Raw potatoes obviously have pathogens in them, since they do eventually develop soft spots and decompose. Cooking potatoes releases moisture from within them, which, as they cool, creates a hospitable environment for any pathogens present to reproduce to harmful levels. Best to just avoid the problem
Sorry, GG, but what you are saying is not correct. First, you are confusing pathogens with bacteria. The bacteria that eventually spoils a potato is not a pathogenic bacteria. Second, potatoes have to reach a temperature of 212 degrees to cook and become soft. 212 degrees will kill any bacteria on or in the potato. In addition, we prick potatoes to let the moisture out, so there is far less moisture after cooking than before. However, as soon as the potato reaches a temperature that will support spoilage bacteria, it can begin to spoil. My memory of this case was the potatoes were left, untouched in the oven. In that case, it would take a long time for spoilage bacteria to get in the oven and act. But I would not eat 12 hours potatoes, because life is too short to eat dried out stale food.
GotGarlic
Chef Extraordinaire
Well, there are toxins from pathogens that are not inactivated by high heat, so I wouldn't risk it.
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mozart
Senior Cook
Toxins are produced by live bacteria. So if there are toxins on the potato, they would have to be there when it was first put in the hot oven. And if that is the case, then the potato will have the toxin as soon as it is baked and 12 hours later. You get sick either way.
That, and I've never heard of toxins on potatoes, except for botulism after the potato was put in anaerobic conditions.
GotGarlic
Chef Extraordinaire
mozart
Senior Cook
Not even in the ballpark. Staph toxin is associated with potato salad, because of the mayo.
If staph bacteria could live on potato skin, the toxin would be there when you put the potato in the oven, then the bacteria would die, and then the toxin would still be there an hour or 12 hours later. the same amount of toxin. So what you seem to recommend is that folks not eat baked potatoes at all.
mozart
Senior Cook
For clarity, the problem with potato salad is that the potato raises the PH of the mayo to the point that the mayo can support growth of staph and thus produce the toxin. This only happens when the salad is left out for long periods AND staph has been introduced during preparation after the potatoes have been cooked. This process is nothing like baking a potato and leaving it in the oven.
