En Papillote -- Certain vegetables undercooked

[klagd999]

En Papillote has been my go-to cooking technique recently for all from meat/fish
to vegetables/potatoes. Meat I usually first brown under a very high heat, whereas
potatoes are reverse seared.

However I had some problems with cooking certain vegetables like
mushrooms when placing them as vegetable beds on which I put meat/seafood. They
are often not cooked ideal way.

It seems like the only way I can succeed here is to put always meat/seafood, potatoes,
vegetables each into their own parcel. Or are there other tricks other people use?

 

[klagd999]

So for example how should I deal with mushrooms, they don't really lose
water in a 180 C oven very quickly, and come out almost raw when I
cook them in the same parcel as my meat. Is it recommended to first sear
them or reverse sear them. Maybe reverse sear is the way to go. I could
simply sauté them, but then I like the fact that en-Papillote leaves so little mess,
and it allows me to add spices/flavor to the parcel without burning it in the sauce pan.

 

[Andy M.]

Mushrooms will not be the same en papillote as they are sautéd. They will cook through but won't be browned. This is why you sear your meats before wrapping them.

 

[Andy M.]

I wouldn't cook foods en papillote that I want to be browned and crispy. If you eat browned meats and mushrooms, you should consider a different cooking method.

 

[klagd999]

Maybe it's just some basic chemistry, so mushrooms should not be steamed, so we need
to sauté them always basically? I dislike having mushrooms that are full of water. Or it's just a
matter of leaving them way longer in the parcel?

 

[klagd999]

For meat first searing under high heat, and then finishing en-Papillote has been working rather
well, especially with a meat thermometer. I'd rather not sear my meat because especially
chicken almost always comes out dry.

 

[klagd999]

Maybe the solution is indeed to place the vegetables all in their
own parcels, cook them rather long, and finish them
under high heat, like with potatoes. Then I'd get the last bit of water
out and brown the mushrooms?

 

[pictonguy]

Not all food, or a desired texture or doneness will ever be resolved with only using one technique and this technique is basically steaming. If you want something caramelized like the surface of certain foods that create that Maillard reaction then steaming is a no go. Just don't make En Papillote your only option. Also the last thing you want to do is place something you just browned covered to create a steaming environment.

 

[klagd999]

My only standard cooking techniques that I try to
perfect at this point are sautéing / en-papillote, usually in
sequence, and combined with a meat thermometer. I will go
to braising whenever I make a stew obviously.

What do you mean by the last sentence? -- Whenever we have created the
caramelisation it will never go away right, or do you think then steaming
it will remove this flavour again? My steam environment is usually chicken stock +
white wine.

 

[klagd999]

I also watch Chef Jean Pierre, his cooking is mostly sautéing, so I think
I should use it more often.

 

[klagd999]

The reason I use En-Papillote is that with an oven temperature of 180 C, I can
almost always predict the correct cooking time of every item, even w/o a
meat thermometer. I just check the temperature of the oven with infrared
thermometer and then every item goes in in its parcel.

It usually finishes fairly fast (chicken medium <= 10 minutes), and it
allows to create beautiful little steaming environments. Reverse searing is
actually preferred but it risks overcooking the item, so I usually first sear.

 

[pepperhead212]

A method I saw in an ATK show for cooking mushrooms (I don't even remember what the show was about, just the preparation of those mushrooms!) actually started by steaming them. What this does is gets a lot of that water out, but also, it keeps them from absorbing a large amount of oil - a problem when sautéeing dry mushrooms. Also, you don't have to worry about when washing them - with this method, you don't have to worry about them absorbing water. I often buy those "clearance" mushrooms from a local produce place, that are sort of dirty, and I scrub them clean! Then, depending on what they are used in, I slice them thick, or cut into chunks - halves, quarters, sometimes sixths. Then put them in a sauté pan (I use my 10" pan for a lb, the 12" for 2 lbs, and a flat bottomed wok for a half lb) that they fit fairly tight in (they shrink, as always), then put a few tb of water in it, for a lb of mushrooms, and place over medium heat. When the water starts to steam, cover the pan, and let them steam, about 7 or 8 minutes, shaking the pan a few times. A lot of water will come out, so there will be more than you started with, of course! Turn the heat up to med-high, to cook the water off, and when it is almost completely gone, add a small amount of oil to brown the mushrooms. Only 2-3 tsp oil or butter, to brown a lb of mushrooms, using this method, as they absorb very little. They brown very well, and after removing from the pan, it can be deglazed, to get the last bit of flavor out of it.

I use this method for a lot of things, and when the mushrooms are added at the end of many things, like soups or stews, instead of giving off most their flavor into the liquid, they keep a lot of it, so the mushrooms have more flavor. For flavor in the dishes I often use a small amount of dried mushrooms, to make up for that. And it doesn't take that long to do - I usually do this, after getting the soup started in one pot, then do this, and have the mushrooms ready by the end, when I add them to simmer several minutes.

 

[taxlady]

How long are you cooking the package? How big are your pieces of mushroom? Cut thinner might solve the problem.

I haven't had an issue with anything not being cooked properly. I follow Jacques Pépin's instructions in the video at the following link.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=596274547932467

 

[taxlady]

I don't think that en papillote is a method that can just be used for everything.

 

[pictonguy]

Maybe the solution is indeed to place the vegetables all in their
own parcels, cook them rather long, and finish them
under high heat, like with potatoes. Then I'd get the last bit of water
out and brown the mushrooms?

Doing that is basically changing the method of cooking from a steaming environment to a roasting environment after all the liquid has been evaporated. This changes everything and basically sabotages our best intentions and ingredients. I wouldn't suggest that would be the best way forward with En Papillote.

 

[pictonguy]

My only standard cooking techniques that I try to
perfect at this point are sautéing / en-papillote, usually in
sequence, and combined with a meat thermometer. I will go
to braising whenever I make a stew obviously.

What do you mean by the last sentence? -- Whenever we have created the
caramelisation it will never go away right, or do you think then steaming
it will remove this flavour again? My steam environment is usually chicken stock +
white wine.

Generally browning is for taste, texture, and a crust. If you steam it you'll generate a soft, saturated texture and a mouthfeel that defies science and logic, imo.

 

[klagd999]

Sorry I think I wrote in a vague way, by finishing with high heat I mean not increasing the temperature in the oven, that takes too much time also.

It's basically just finishing with high smoke point oil to get a very quick Maillard reaction without changing the inner doneness ideally.

 

[klagd999]

On the gas stove in a steel pan.

 

[klagd999]

A method I saw in an ATK show for cooking mushrooms (I don't even remember what the show was about, just the preparation of those mushrooms!) actually started by steaming them. What this does is gets a lot of that water out, but also, it keeps them from absorbing a large amount of oil - a problem when sautéeing dry mushrooms. Also, you don't have to worry about when washing them - with this method, you don't have to worry about them absorbing water. I often buy those "clearance" mushrooms from a local produce place, that are sort of dirty, and I scrub them clean! Then, depending on what they are used in, I slice them thick, or cut into chunks - halves, quarters, sometimes sixths. Then put them in a sauté pan (I use my 10" pan for a lb, the 12" for 2 lbs, and a flat bottomed wok for a half lb) that they fit fairly tight in (they shrink, as always), then put a few tb of water in it, for a lb of mushrooms, and place over medium heat. When the water starts to steam, cover the pan, and let them steam, about 7 or 8 minutes, shaking the pan a few times. A lot of water will come out, so there will be more than you started with, of course! Turn the heat up to med-high, to cook the water off, and when it is almost completely gone, add a small amount of oil to brown the mushrooms. Only 2-3 tsp oil or butter, to brown a lb of mushrooms, using this method, as they absorb very little. They brown very well, and after removing from the pan, it can be deglazed, to get the last bit of flavor out of it.

I use this method for a lot of things, and when the mushrooms are added at the end of many things, like soups or stews, instead of giving off most their flavor into the liquid, they keep a lot of it, so the mushrooms have more flavor. For flavor in the dishes I often use a small amount of dried mushrooms, to make up for that. And it doesn't take that long to do - I usually do this, after getting the soup started in one pot, then do this, and have the mushrooms ready by the end, when I add them to simmer several minutes.

You bring up a very good point with mushrooms. I hate wasting so much beautiful olive oil by putting more and more and them just absorbing all.of it. So in fact not starting them with sauteing but first having another technique is actually very desirable. Steaming either in steaming basket or En Papillote makes perfect sense, just it doesn't work by mixing it with other stuff in the same parcel.

 

[Kathleen]

It won't solve your question regarding en-papillote but Pepperhead212 gives a great solution. Personally, I love mushrooms sauteed or roasted. To roast, I cut them in half, and toss them with a little olive oil and salt. Then scatter them on a sheet pan, then stick them in a 450 degree Fahrenheit oven (232 degrees C) for 10 minutes or so. You can add other spices or seasonings before or after roasting, if you want.